But I am not… A Doormat. The apologetics works would use double talk and obvuscation to make you think they made their point while leaving holes you could drive a Mack truck through (lee strobals works are notoriouse for this, see the multiple take downs on line). Hi Bruce, Loved your response above, to David; I laughed out loud and my little granddaughter asked me what was so funny. The chance to be reunited with my loved ones in paradise? I commented on one of your other posts, Bruce. Again, as you said, “all I found was double talk, obfuscation, and lies”. Regardless of what you think about God, Jesus, Christianity, or religion, I ask you to put that aside for a moment and open your mind. A person may ask for the truth, but he may not like what he sees. Compassion is an evolutionary developed trait, though it’s taken intellect and education to understand this. Or at least worthy of re-examining your current position of there being no God (Christian or otherwise)? He’s just like us. It is set to music. This is a famous essay/lecture by one of the 20 th century’s most influential philosophers. There are many more reasons than these, but this list should satisfy those who continue to prod and poke, trying to find the REAL reason(s) I am no longer a Christian. So, this site will get everything out in the open for everybody. I think the Bible God is an abhorrent, violent deity, one I would not worship even if I believed it existed. Not what I say. The short version of my comment is: Raised Catholic. However, you do have some 20 Jewish sects who do get violent if their “interpretation” is questioned. So if it turns out that Jesus is god, then the blame is on him for not making their undeniable evidence that the offer was real, and the claims were true. Dezember 2017. In the New Testament, what sounds like a graphical description of Hell actually seems to be symbolism lifted from symbols in the Old Testament. In the case of Jesus, James, Paul, and Peter, write down what they say about salvation, knowing God, etc and compare them. Mai 2019. I think much of the so-called history found in the Bible is fictional. It doesn’t belay the fear of death but really … what choice do we have ?? I can only weigh the evidence as it is made available. You appear to be an evangelical, but one who rejects the sufficiency of scripture. to the new testament [N.T.] We still won’t worship them BUT we will greatly respect their power AND if benevolent probably honor the grace that they would “hopefully” bestow upon us. Compare Paul’s theology to Jesus’s. “Jesus was especially emphatic that all his followers NEVER give up jewish traditions” Seems rather to have condemned some of the Jewish traditions according to Mt 15:3-6. Or that the buddhist were right and you reincarnate into an animal because you didn’t achieve nirvana? The term “Hell” may not, in fact, be a decent translation for any of the words it is meant to translate. One of the great thinkers, Bertrand Russell explains the reasoning behind his convictions in an accessible way. [1] By “an encounter with Jesus”, I do not mean some kind of vision or audible voice. Isaiah 66 evokes a burning garbage dump of lifeless bodies — not a pit for burning people alive. Steve Ransomovitch Lays Down a Challenge to Bruce and His Fellow Atheists, No Need to Wear a Face Mask: When it’s My Time to Die, I’m Ready to Go, Please Help Me Understand Why You Stopped Believing, Black Collar Crime: Evangelical Pastor George Swain Indicted on Child Rape Charges, Poking Geri Ungurean, An Evangelical Conspiracy Theorist, Bruce, You Are a Christian, No Matter What You Say, Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Spaniard VIII Slut Shames Women, Black Collar Crime: Evangelical Pastor David Evans Murdered by His Wife and Her Lover, Black Collar Crime: Evangelical Pastor Wayne Aarum Accused of Sexual Misconduct, Black Collar Crime: Methodist Pastor Stan Thompson Charged With Sexual Battery, I Am a Publican and a Heathen — Part Five, Groveling at the Feet of God to Whom All Praise, Honor, and Glory is Due, The Official Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Rulebook, Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Globalists Plan to Kill Christians and Trump Supporters. Evangelicals haven’t had an original thought/argument in decades. Geoff, theism/atheism have to do with belief but gnosticism/agnosticism have to do with knowledge. I may not be understanding you, but I don’t have the training or education to read the Bible in the original Hebrew or Greek. Now. I was questioning MWH about what I take to be his/her position that the concept of “hell” as presented in the bible is merely symbolic language, as opposed to an actual place. So if you’re interested you could explore the thinking of those whose beliefs are not the strawman you seem to attack. Where others need 400 pages or more to make their point, he gets the message across in less than 40. Yes. A little knowledge of volcanology makes the description by Moses very, very real … just not what U think. As Bart Ehrman had repeatedly shown in his bestselling books, the Bible is a flawed, errant, and internally contradictory book. The “scientific concept” was advanced by astrophysicist A. Kardeshev in the 1960s. If and when we discover the real god(s), let me more than assure you, they will be nothing like our petty literature gods. You don’t have to believe or follow God to be moral. Reason leads me to conclude that Jesus was executed by the Roman government, end of story. (I gave a link to an essay about fire as an established symbol of judgment, but that wasn’t allowed. The church I attended was “progressive” and included congregants from many different backgrounds, including some who were LGBT. as Jesus NT concept of justice may not fully sync with our (my?) Mai 2016. So much for the morality of the bible. Jede Atheist kennt die Argumente, aber Russel presentiert die so, dass auch bekennende Christen zugeben muß, dass ihr Glaube märchenhaft und gar gefährlich ist. It appears to me that this is the crux of every atheist’s argument — except for those who feel too insecure to admit emotion as the driving force of their beliefs. With all that power, and we couldn’t contain a lie for two weeks… Take it from one who was involved in conspiracy, who saw the frailty of man firsthand. Please give evidence, any evidence that his statements are historically (or Biblically) incorrect? But people of conflicting morals can peacefully coexist as long as they are committed to keeping the peace. After that school year, I interned at a Christian music magazine in Texas and it is there that I have my first memories of deep guilt. 3. My biggest issue was the lack of evidence for the claims. Eine Person fand diese Informationen hilfreich, Rezension aus Deutschland vom 18. specifically house of Israel Mt 15:24,) they were speaking to, I thought, no conversion necessary by what I think the Hebrew traditional measure of Judaism has been (other than proselytes)…? Don’t attempt to harmonize the text or make it fit any particular theological system 3.) I am not a Christian because it makes my life easier. And even the OT indicates the entirety of that law wasn’t necessarily what God desired (ps 51:17, Pr 21:3,Is 1:11-14,Is 66:1-3,Hos 6:6, Mic 6:7-8, Mt 9:13,Rm 12:1-2), that He apparently had a hierarchy of preferences. Good people find ways to help others and themselves. . The exceptional “intellectual” Christian has, of necessity, adroitly compartmentalized his or her intellect and his or her faith so that never the twain shall meet. In the first five books of the Bible, I can find no mention of being burned alive forever. I am sure that your life would be a whole lot better if you made love your aim and sought, with all your heart and mind, to make that happen in your relationships with others. “believed sincerely that ONLY THE JEWS were chosen to be saved.” Then who were the other sheep, ‘not of this fold’, that he is reported to have spoken of seeking (Jn 10:16)? If you think I’m wrong, you should read what Jesus has in store for all Christians. Why should I expect this to be an honest testimony from you, if your worldview gives you no absolute reason to be honest? I had my time in the sun, did my best to help humanity and can die happy knowing that one man can make a difference. Sociological Reasons 2. why don’t you start such an effort in your church? All Jesus’ followers were Jews. I think you could elaborate even further than this, but I know that would be a very long list, much more than 16. Anyone who carries out any of God’s apocalyptic judgments is himself on the wrong end of God’s judgment. David. I’m an atheist as well, but my atheism is a result — almost a side-effect — of a materialist outlook. It’s safe to ignore them. Nachdem Sie Produktseiten oder Suchergebnisse angesehen haben, finden Sie hier eine einfache Möglichkeit, diese Seiten wiederzufinden. …And it’s a good thing that the religiously-minded never look at the world that way. I took exceptional pains to make sure that this web-site was NON-CRITICAL of Christians. Was Jesus a Jew? If you no longer care for what God stands for, then there is no point offering any evidence. National Secular Society, South London Branch, Battersea Town Hall. Rome did not fall. Russell fails to hold JC responsible for the atrocities his followers have committed (and continue to commit) in his name. Unfortunately, this is one thing many christians care little about, all that matters is the security of an illusion, and the promise of ever-lasting life. I’ve made plenty of mistakes in my life, but I just want to grow in loving kindness. Thank you for reading this post. Just saying you don’t believe in the Christian God might mean you’re a Deist, and maybe susceptible to being led back to the True Faith (TM) that you once professed (or that you only thought you professed, because you didn’t go to the True Church (TM)). That said, draw a line though every point you disagree with and you are still left with sufficient reasons for why I am not a Christian. It can be argued that there are competing Christianities in the NT, at least three: Jesus, Paul, and James. His stand against war and case for rationalism are well argued. In fact, being a Christian can sometimes complicate life and throw things upside down. not buried in the fine print, or hemming and hawing when you ask a question of a paster; right there in bold print on the intro web site, that your church doesn’t take the virgin birth literally, but a metaphor for being pure? It’s sad, really, to see how you’ve abandoned the way of faith, especially when your reasons are so hackneyed. I have observed that this is very much about feeling, human feeling and not simply thought or lack of it. MWH – Oh, now I see the connection you were making. (the only churches i’m aware of that don’t have such literal dogma are the UU and liberal quakers.) Where does one go to find out about this Jesus? Oh, you explicitly said atheist, but a Good Christian ought to be able to talk you out of that if there’s any shred of belief in any supernatural being…. In Acts 15, there is a council held to determine if salvation requires keeping the law and being circumcised. Bruce … correct me if I’m wrong. You say : “the story always ends with some rejection of God’s morals.”, Bruce says: *sigh* (Greek for the bullshit from Christians never ends). Why would Jesus bother with this foreboding language if it didn’t in his view exist? I think humanism provides a moral and ethical basis for life. Why should I believe what you say, if you fall for this nonsense? More precisely, he presents several arguments for the existence of God, and shows the invalidity of these arguments. That is just fine until they try to take over my town and when I protest and say, this is shared territory, they accuse me of being evil and a God-hater. @John Arthur – Sure, but I’m not arguing for or against the veracity of the biblical text here. I am aware of all of this. What evidence is there that God actually exists? For that matter, I don’t see how it’s possible to square any of the Abrahamic religions with love and acceptance–not mere “tolerance”–of those who are different from one’s self. All first-time comments are moderated. “Intellect and education have nothing to do with compassion. His greatest hatred was reserved for the preisthood of the Pagans who worshipped on sundays. Es wird kein Kindle Gerät benötigt. The intellectual and emotional responses are both neural generated in the brain, and are interconnected. Sorry, it just didn’t catch my attention first.). I then went on a search for the evidence and all I found was double talk, obfuscation, and lies. Infant mortality is infant mortality. I suppose the fear cuts both ways. I gave a link to an essay about fire as an established symbol of judgment, but that wasn’t allowed.). All the details are probably not necessary, let’s just say I didn’t have a girlfriend and I did have a computer. And it worked … didn’t it !! What this site involves are verses from the old testament [O.T.] / … / And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. !” … and that would be the end of planet of the apes. Evangelicals believe that all biblical laws trump the laws of the U.S.A. [man’s or secular laws]. The way to ‘square’ it is deny…. The essence of Christianity is faith in Jesus ; one who is God, forgives sins, and gives some or all of us eternal life. re: “…it is not a majority Christian view that everything in the Bible is literally true, that “inerrancy” is not — in many Churches — a literalist doctrine, …”. Balboa Press. I mean, how could you trust a religion if one of its foundational stories presented humanity as so irredeemably horrible that really the only way to fix the situation was to kill off everyone on the planet? would be to compile a list of reasons why no known Christian can be a follower of Jesus. You do us a great disservice, by the way, in assuming that we’ve never considered these questions — and that we’ve never asked Jesus to show us the truth. One-time donations can be made through PayPal. Why I am (not) a "Christian" If being a “Christian” means not being open to embrace doubt and confusion, then I am not a Christian. MWH, I’m curious as to your take on Matthew 22:13 and 25:30 where Jesus is describing the kingdom of God and the fate of those not allowed to enter (cast into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth). It made me sad because I do believe that putting ones trust in Jesus is the only way to eternity. It’s your forum; I know when I am not welcome. Curious, is there any sort of evidence that you would consider as being indicative of something/someone/somebeing being a God, Christian or otherwise, or even a god? (slight aside – my understanding is that ISLAM in fact believes Jesus is to save them as well, but they do not believe he actually physically died, but was rescued from the cross before death, and (eventually) taken up to heaven without having died and risen [as is reported of both Enoch and Elijah], to return again eventually still to die.). But I realize your just going to ignore this because I am sure you and the original comment I commented on were only drive by evangelist not really caring to have a dialog or to provide evidenced answers. The Christian god may exist; so may the gods of Olympus, or of ancient Egypt, or of Babylon. Suffice it to say that your website breaks no new ground and that all of your points have adequate answers in evangelical scholarship. If you say yes, please show, from the Bible, how it is possible to come to this conclusion. Just compare Isaiah 66:24 with Mark 9:43–44, along with Isaiah 34:6–1. what if you find that Jesus (the true Jesus of course not the religous/perverted Jesus) is the true God and you simply refused to accept his offer of eternal life? There is no such thing as a progressive Christian: oxy-indeed! Question: how does one go about trusting a fiction? A good historical resource, but you may get it for free from Project Gutenberg. A lot of the arguments in this book could be, or have been, opposed by experienced and clever apologists. For more information about Bruce, please read the About page. Or you could just read two or three Bibles and form your own conclusion. Bruce is also an agnostic aththeist like the rest of us = belief in a possible advanced hyper civilizations that can accomplish anything any scriptural god could attain if they actually existed. The earliest lesson I learned in my walk with Jesus was the importance of being open and honest about your doubts and questions. Asserting we are badly misinformed doesn’t make it so. How can anyone say this and think his decision is mainly intellectual? Believe what you will. People choose to go to hell by not accepting salvation. Jesus will reveal the truth to you if you ask him. There is the man made, earth bound scriptural concept studied in depth by arm chair archaeologists and highly motivated charlatans and a “scientific concept” which is strictly in the realm of astro and particle physicists. ******But maybe that’s the real rub – did he rise from the dead? 4. For using many BIG ENGLISH WORDS about HELL in point 8 is a food for thought. All humanists eventually end up at the “humanity is a plague” stage. Why I Am Not a Christian: A Summary of My Case Against Christianity (2008) John W. Loftus . This one is especially interesting. This is why you appealed to faith in your other comment. “All humanists eventually end up at the ‘humanity is a plague’ stage.”. Like many non-Christians, Russell willingly caves in on the historical existence of JC without a fight, despite the fact that there is absolutely no reliable evidence whatsoever (except for forgeries and documents created 100 years or more after the supposed events by individuals who were not there) that JC is not a mythical composite of a variety of figures from other religions and folklore. Found it, and belief in general, to be wanting. I also draw out the “10 commandments” in their entirety. The Professor went into detail explaining what scholars know about how polytheism evolved into monotheism in ancient Judaism. Wählen Sie die Kategorie aus, in der Sie suchen möchten. . Seriously. I do owe you one apology. See also my book reviews, especially the religion, Christianity, and Israel/Judaism sections. In particular pursuit of justice/righteousness seemed to be important (1ki10:9,2ch9:8,psa82:3,jer22:3,Jer22:15,Jer23:5,[Mic 6:8],Job37:23,[Pro21:3],[Isa 1:17],Isa 56:1, Amo 6:12, Zep 3:5), presumably as an outgrowth of love required in the 2nd and his 3rd commandment, although it may be our (my?) “What if you die, you find you were wrong?”. When an Evangelical reads Genesis 1-3 with its plural pronouns they read trinitarian theology into the text. They’re preparing children for criminal careers. Wait, weren’t you just complaining about straw men and unsupported assertions? So you responded to my comment but then spouted nothing that matched anything I posted. Edited, rewritten, and corrected. methinks you doth protest too much. He was a very proud and very unpopular individual. Just because a holy book claims that there is a hell, doesn’t mean there is one. Why I am not a Christian. that most disturb the secular world. What about the Inquisition? so it’s not a straw man argument at all. Why I am Not A Christian is not only a critique of superstition and ignorance, it is an outstanding lesson in logic. 2 Personen fanden diese Informationen hilfreich, Rezension aus dem Vereinigten Königreich vom 18. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen awesome grandchildren. That is the point. After a careful textual study, I have concluded that the “fires of Hell” are actually a symbol. I plan to do some writing on this one of these years. Contributing to science will get us there faster. I’m going to add to your list of 16 with one more. So far, if there is a god, she has a huge PR problem. : Wahn, Täuschung, Verstehen, Der, Die, Das: The Secrets of German Gender. If there are multiple truths in conflict, they tend to act according to one they perceive as more important, if such can be determined (whether by reason or emotion). Montjoie. You say, “all I found was double talk, obfuscation, and lies”. Laden Sie eine der kostenlosen Kindle Apps herunter und beginnen Sie, Kindle-Bücher auf Ihrem Smartphone, Tablet und Computer zu lesen. Yes, I am atheistic towards all known gods, agnostic towards unknown gods. I’m just going to second Bruce’s comment. Scientific Reasons (1) 5. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. The bible won’t lie to you. Of course, I’m not going to be gullible about it, I’m always skeptical of what I hear. Your thought or belief can’t negate or affirm the existence of something or not. August 1999. By “Christian,” I mean someone who has trusted their life to Jesus Christ as Crucified Savior and Resurrected Lord and seeks to follow Him each day. ****** As is attributed to Pilot, “What is truth?” (Jn 18:38) in this matter? Why do you think you know better what Jesus truly-ooly thought than the guys who travelled with him? The same goes for a passage like Genesis 1-3. I myself am better classified as an experiential materialist, for example. I think the Bible teaches multiple plans of salvation. I had no choice at that point, I just didn’t believe. Isn’t it a far better goal to be a person who is growing in compassion in this life and then let the future take care of itself. If you become a Christian, people will be amazed that you choose to identify yourself with such an institution. Or that people who don’t accept the seed of faith that God ostensibly planted within them are damned. I think the plural pronouns reference multiple gods. I’ll say hello, and go from there. As for the “real” reasons for my deconversion, I wanted to be porn star, and live a debauched life. Drop what you have been told, taught, or believe and just compare the two. As for me, I suspect both the intellectual and emotional conclusions happen at the same time. As an atheist, I certainly reject the notion that Jesus resurrected from the dead. 3 Personen fanden diese Informationen hilfreich. Have you ever been on a live volcano?? That would actually please me immensely. Yet I simply could not understand how anyone can have a “liberal” interpretation of a book that so plainly states that people who, essentially, have sex for non-procreative purposes outside of heterosexual marriage–or who don’t obey their parents–or wear the wrong kinds of clothes–should be put to death. 1. I think the Bible shows a progression of belief from polytheism to monotheism. Constantine and Paul working together, huh? These reasons are based on a lifetime spent studying the Bible and studying the textual, historical, and moral underpinnings of Christianity. that creed explicitly states they believe in the trinity, virgin birth, resurrection, etc. As I said … Christians today have such a twisted view of Jesus that they still find it difficult to accept Him for who He truly was and what He truly preached. ), Not sure if that was because of first time comment, or because of auto review looking for verse references…. I had grown up in a very Christian environment. These essays show their age, many of ideas can now be refuted; but the reasoning is good and in some places. if you don’t like bruce’s argument, why to pick a bone with him, rather than all the fundamentalists out there? Ihre zuletzt angesehenen Artikel und besonderen Empfehlungen. but the fundamentalist christian right has a large influence on politics here, and a large number of those officially and actually believe in biblical literalism. my guess is you’d be surprised the resistance you’d get, both within the church, and within the denomination, and from other churches. I lead others into a relationship with Jesus. Publication dates would’ve been helpful, Rezension aus dem Vereinigten Königreich vom 14. True. Why I Am Not a Christian and Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects Quotes Showing 1-30 of 95 “I do not pretend to be able to prove that there is no God. How nicely condescending of you, your making the claim now that none of us here sincerely asked god to reveal himself to us, and put our trust in jesus. Scientific Reasons (2) 6. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. What follows is not meant to be a thorough exploration of every nuance and problem, nor an exhaustive account of all the arguments and evidence. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I no longer think the Bible is a God-inspired text. Rezension aus Deutschland vom 19. I just now – fifteen minutes ago – came to realize with the most crystal clarity I have ever had why I cannot call myself a Christian. There are many more reasons than these, but this list should satisfy those who continue to prod and poke, trying to find the REAL reason(s) I am no longer a Christian. 11 Personen fanden diese Informationen hilfreich, Rezension aus Deutschland vom 17. Hope that helps. That is my biggest clue that the “fires of Hell” are a symbol of exaggeration.). Based on what the Bible says about this God, I would not worship him even if there was evidence for his existence. You would have figured that out had you read more of my blog posts beside this one. Rezension aus Deutschland vom 30. . For example, James says faith without works is dead, yet Paul says faith (salvation) by works is no faith at all. Too personal in as much as he doesn’t look at basic principles of religion. Paul aided in bringing Jesus to the masses by throwing out what He taught and adopting Him as an icon of the new faith. Didn’t think about the divine or supernatural for a long time. Its given us everything we have today. While I have many online friends who are liberal/progressive Christians, I cannot intellectually embrace their beliefs. Plus I’m not sure who your thinking is living in despair? I will put all this through Bruce first. Unfortunately, this is one thing many christians care little about, all that matters is the security of an illusion, and the promise of ever-lasting life. Although I think such things can and probably do occur, most people encounter Jesus primarily through the biblical accounts of his life, death, and Resurrection. But for other Christians out there who actually have an open mind, a good summary of my reasons for rejecting Christianity will help show why I am not a deluded liar, but an honest and reasonable man coming to an honest and reasonable decision. Hope that adds to the blog. REASONS WHY NOT 1. The trinity thing sounds like an interesting up and coming post. I suppose you could claim that Jesus was mistaken. Yes, I am in “the spectrum”, too. They don’t know enough. I will not try to convince you but I would like you to look at the link below and consider the content. No need to keep saying the same thing over and over. But little children and babies are not extremely wicked. The bible certainly indicates that Jesus died and rose again. Christians take Trinitarian theology and read it back into the text, when in fact the text supports polytheism. Dale, I see your comments as not all lining up with all of the bible narrative, and other probable realities, so attempting to provide material biblical and life evidence contrary to some of your statements…. 1of2) I actually tried to provide (first comment on site) some biblical evidence as to what the bible indicates Jesus attempted to turn the people toward, and got thrown to your comment rules page (which includes quoting bible verses as resulting in an unacceptable comment. While emotions certainly play a part, at the end of the day (for me anyway), the claims Christians make concerning their God, Jesus, and the Bible cannot be rationally supported. It was very interesting, I love learning about that sort of stuff . To become a total desciple would require a conversion to His faith. If you asked for the evidence for anything I claimed I could give you examples and how to test for the evidence as well, plus I could give you test that if they got certain results would falsify the claim I made. and Moses’ description of Hell, it sounds way too real to me. Warum ich kein Christ bin (Originaltitel: Why I Am Not a Christian) ist ein Essay des britischen Philosophen, Mathematikers und Nobelpreisträgers Bertrand Russell aus dem Jahre 1927. — Isaiah 34:6–11, In the first five books of the Bible, I can find no mention of being burned alive forever. The words in the New Testament that sound like a graphic description of “Hell” appear to be rooted in Old-Testament symbolism. It is a source of quotations as well as offering a comforting substantiation of their shared beliefs. This should be a basic textbook for 6th graders in our public schools. I do not feel the presence of the invisible and do not buy the story about God killing his boy for me. 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